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The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

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Dennis
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Dennis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:00 am

Well i assume that commishs will adjust that way, that players are still shooting roughly same percentage.
Shot preferences I assume they will take care of too, so that a big who doesn’t shoot 3s, won’t shoot any in the new engine too.

Shaq definitely lost a lot value in the change in your league. Wouldn’t want a 46% big man on my team while before change he looked like a stud.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Rizzo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:57 am

The draft team will be sharing our findings - especially for shooting ratings - with the admins to make sure we replicate the player ratings as best as possible for the transition. I think we all need to realize early and often that some players will just be better after the transition and some will be worse but the goal is to get them to as close to their current abilities as possible.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: bt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:45 am

I haven't installed the new game but has someone definitively ruled out the big man bug? I know in DDS18 that regardless of preferences, even with newly created players with zero outside, bigs were still taking threes somehow which tanked percentages.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Dennis » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:28 am

bt wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:45 am
I haven't installed the new game but has someone definitively ruled out the big man bug? I know in DDS18 that regardless of preferences, even with newly created players with zero outside, bigs were still taking threes somehow which tanked percentages.
Still exists in dds19. I think I brought it up months ago. I remember someone said it got fixed by Gary with an update. Can’t believe that though.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Dennis » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:25 am

Rizzo wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:57 am
The draft team will be sharing our findings - especially for shooting ratings - with the admins to make sure we replicate the player ratings as best as possible for the transition. I think we all need to realize early and often that some players will just be better after the transition and some will be worse but the goal is to get them to as close to their current abilities as possible.
I think everybody aware of that, but a drop of in shooting percentage by ~10-12% is huge. Imagine a guy like stone would go from 56% to suddenly be a 44% guy. He wouldn’t be a decent role player anymore.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:06 am

@Dennis ... so do you think we didn't do our best in the transition (or that we didn't know what we were doing)?

The issue is what bt said. Even with zero preference, bigs still did that. Shaq is an extreme example. Why? Because he was a pure post player: only post up and dunk. No mid-range, no threes. On the other hand, bigs who were not only post up and dunk, translated pretty well (because we made sure we did our job). As an example, Charles Barkley:

http://gah.keep-at-it.de/Website/41.html

In Barkley's case, he wasn't only a post up and dunk big, but he also had a mid-range game with some threes. So the problem lies in the engine. DDS18 forces players to shoot from outside even with zero preference. If your player had very bad outside ratings (because he actually never took those shots), then he got screwed in the switch. There was nothing we could do about it, unless we had increased inside shooting ratings to unreal values.

Another very important thing that I'm sure those in charge of the transition are aware. Of the two components on shooting distribution (ball actions and floor range), only one (ball action) can be modified once the player is created (via player instructions) but the other one (floor range) cannot be modified. This is critical.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Dennis » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:08 am

Nope I’m not saying that. Just that there might be a fix to keep shooting level roughly the same and that myles and Jon will figure it out.
I don’t even have any clue about your transition, so I never would even think about evaluating someone’s work without any information but a screenshot.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:11 am

Dennis wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:08 am
Just that there might be a fix to keep shooting level roughly the same
There was, but just lacked realism. It was to increase inside shooting ratings above reasonable levels.

Edit: I have said this time and again, but from a purely basketball point of view, the first engine was the best. It was lacking in many other areas compared to later versions, though.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Dennis » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:20 am

mgtr81 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:11 am
Dennis wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:08 am
Just that there might be a fix to keep shooting level roughly the same
There was, but just lacked realism. It was to increase inside shooting ratings above reasonable levels.

Edit: I have said this time and again, but from a purely basketball point of view, the first engine was the best. It was lacking in many other areas compared to later versions, though.
Mh so based on that players like Adams, Payton, cordinier, gates will be total trash in dds19? They all are insane inside 3-5 feet but total trash beyond.

Btw how did you get stats from the old dds into the new one? I mean on the html?
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:03 am

Dennis wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:20 am
mgtr81 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:11 am
Dennis wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:08 am
Just that there might be a fix to keep shooting level roughly the same
There was, but just lacked realism. It was to increase inside shooting ratings above reasonable levels.

Edit: I have said this time and again, but from a purely basketball point of view, the first engine was the best. It was lacking in many other areas compared to later versions, though.
Mh so based on that players like Adams, Payton, cordinier, gates will be total trash in dds19? They all are insane inside 3-5 feet but total trash beyond.

Btw how did you get stats from the old dds into the new one? I mean on the html?
Stats are from the game ... when creating the new file you have to introduce stats from previous seasons. You have to make sure ID's for all players match in all the different tables, which takes some time because there may be missing ID's from players who retired, etc ...

As for the first question, take this with a grain of salt because I'm talking about DDS18 and not DDS19, so things may have changed (although I doubt that's the case). That's why I have said since the beginning that I wouldn't draft Harrison and that I don't think Jackson is the best player in this draft. In Jackson's case, though, he has three-point range so he may transition well. It's a big question mark, though.

Just for the sake of transparency, the reason why I tried to get Caruso from Myles last season is because I think he is one of the players that can benefit the most from the switch. Assuming there are no big changes from 18 to 19, I would avoid point guards with no outside shot unless their scoring ratings are very low.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Flaming Homer » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:40 am

I checked the stats in our test league.
Especially players with Corner 0-3% and Above the Break 0-3%

I didn't see anyone who tried more than 5 3pt over the season. With set of 0 an 0 I would guess a player could have a try here and there but that's just realistic.

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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Rizzo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:33 pm

What I’ve noticed in testing is that if a big man has [Catch & Shoot > 0] && [Above the Break OR Corner > 0] then you start to see big men chucking threes. The draft team is well aware of this and is being sure that when we create bigs if they are t supposed to be shooting threes we won’t create them to.

Now offensive sets play a part in where players go on the floor as well. So even if you have a big 100% Post Up but you run a Seven Seconds or Pace & Space offense there will be times he stretches out to the three point line because hats what the offensive system calls for. At that point, as long as he has Catch & Shoot preference above 0, he will take threes.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:47 pm

@Adam: very interesting finding. So, would you say that in DDS19 team strategies somehow override player preferences?
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Rizzo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:06 pm

mgtr81 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:47 pm
@Adam: very interesting finding. So, would you say that in DDS19 team strategies somehow override player preferences?
I wouldn’t say completely but I have run several simulations where centers with zero preference to be beyond the arc will take under 10 threes on the season. It could be end of shot clock heaves or be where the offensive system instructs them to go on the floor but I think player preferences will outweigh the offensive system.

Now if a player has catch and shoot % higher than 0, I think the offense system pushing that player out last the three point line will see big men shoot more threes because of it.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:14 pm

Rizzo wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:06 pm
mgtr81 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:47 pm
@Adam: very interesting finding. So, would you say that in DDS19 team strategies somehow override player preferences?
I wouldn’t say completely but I have run several simulations where centers with zero preference to be beyond the arc will take under 10 threes on the season. It could be end of shot clock heaves or be where the offensive system instructs them to go on the floor but I think player preferences will outweigh the offensive system.

Now if a player has catch and shoot % higher than 0, I think the offense system pushing that player out last the three point line will see big men shoot more threes because of it.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Dennis » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:30 pm

In Adam we trust
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:08 pm

Rizzo wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:06 pm
mgtr81 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:47 pm
@Adam: very interesting finding. So, would you say that in DDS19 team strategies somehow override player preferences?
I wouldn’t say completely but I have run several simulations where centers with zero preference to be beyond the arc will take under 10 threes on the season. It could be end of shot clock heaves or be where the offensive system instructs them to go on the floor but I think player preferences will outweigh the offensive system.

Now if a player has catch and shoot % higher than 0, I think the offense system pushing that player out last the three point line will see big men shoot more threes because of it.
I just ran a quick test with a pace-and-space offense and the center took over two three-pointers per game. I'll run some more when I have the time and let you know.
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Re: The "I Think We're Due for a Mock Draft" Mock Draft

Post Author: Flaming Homer » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:18 pm

What shooting preference has this center?

And if I would run pace & space I would make sure I have an center with at least some outside capability.

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