Pre-season/File Planning
- emplep7
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Pre-season/File Planning
Thank you all again for your continued patience through this transition as always!
The new CSL file is updated on the forum link for you all to download. The only changes made at this point are:
1) Blocks were restored back to DDS19 levels with the exception the following:
- Players with BLK ratings 61 or higher were tiered down (none of these players were changed to be below 60) to fit into the stats that we were seeing from DDS19 for Blocks. Ratings were reduced by a specific number based on where that players rating fell, but the maximum BLK rating league-wide is now 70. Anything above this resulted in bloated numbers which strayed from what we have seen historically in this league (and way off the NBA averages)
- Players 60 and below have the same values as DDS19.
2) Personality Ratings Restored to DDS19 levels
NOTES:
- We tested making changes to RARate, DUNK Rate, and FG_RA and found that we can restore players somewhat to their pre-transition percentages, but that this made the Floor Locations incredibly powerful and would 100% lead to offense being very overpowered in this engine.
We will not be making changes to ANY shooting ratings during this transition, but will look at the season stats following Season 1 and determine if any global changes need to be made.
- We were able to replicate almost all of the pre-transition FG percentages, but just changes Floor Actions and Locations to fit the player. Here are some observations:
1. Pure Post Players should be sent to the Post still. If you try to make a player who shouldnt be shooting 3s shoot 3s, its going to be ugly. Put them where they belong. We were able to restore key players to their pre-transition shooting numbers by simply adjusting these actions/locations.
2. Guards who were sent heavy to the Post will struggle severely. If you do send a guard 100% in the post, they will still shoot a very good percentage, but will not put up many shots (an example of this is Isaiah Cousins who went from averaging 30ppg to 9 ppg when sent purely to the post, but did so on 47% from the field).
This engine is much more realistic and modernized in that small people won't be able to score or even be willing to shoot against tall people unless their skill set is really suited to do so.
3.The Floor actions need to be more thought out. For example, big men who should live in the post should live and focus on the post. If you send a big man with poor handles to drive and shoot, it's going to likely end in a miss. This is a key difference in DDS22 from DDS19.
4. Just like with DDS19, this season is going to be a time for us all to experiment with things. We know you all will find even more things as the season goes on so we encourage you all to share what you find with us so that we can adjust between seasons as needed.
5. There is a new link at the top of the forum called "Player Potential Database" which includes potentials/shooting ratings. Use this to help adjust floor actions/locations. We are going to be flexible with these during this pre-season round 2 and the start of the season but will detail that in each stage.
Again, thank you all for your patience here as we test different ratings/combinations. We are actually really excited about this new engine as it is already proving to be MUCH, MUCH better than DDS19 but is going to take some getting used to.
The new CSL file is updated on the forum link for you all to download. The only changes made at this point are:
1) Blocks were restored back to DDS19 levels with the exception the following:
- Players with BLK ratings 61 or higher were tiered down (none of these players were changed to be below 60) to fit into the stats that we were seeing from DDS19 for Blocks. Ratings were reduced by a specific number based on where that players rating fell, but the maximum BLK rating league-wide is now 70. Anything above this resulted in bloated numbers which strayed from what we have seen historically in this league (and way off the NBA averages)
- Players 60 and below have the same values as DDS19.
2) Personality Ratings Restored to DDS19 levels
NOTES:
- We tested making changes to RARate, DUNK Rate, and FG_RA and found that we can restore players somewhat to their pre-transition percentages, but that this made the Floor Locations incredibly powerful and would 100% lead to offense being very overpowered in this engine.
We will not be making changes to ANY shooting ratings during this transition, but will look at the season stats following Season 1 and determine if any global changes need to be made.
- We were able to replicate almost all of the pre-transition FG percentages, but just changes Floor Actions and Locations to fit the player. Here are some observations:
1. Pure Post Players should be sent to the Post still. If you try to make a player who shouldnt be shooting 3s shoot 3s, its going to be ugly. Put them where they belong. We were able to restore key players to their pre-transition shooting numbers by simply adjusting these actions/locations.
2. Guards who were sent heavy to the Post will struggle severely. If you do send a guard 100% in the post, they will still shoot a very good percentage, but will not put up many shots (an example of this is Isaiah Cousins who went from averaging 30ppg to 9 ppg when sent purely to the post, but did so on 47% from the field).
This engine is much more realistic and modernized in that small people won't be able to score or even be willing to shoot against tall people unless their skill set is really suited to do so.
3.The Floor actions need to be more thought out. For example, big men who should live in the post should live and focus on the post. If you send a big man with poor handles to drive and shoot, it's going to likely end in a miss. This is a key difference in DDS22 from DDS19.
4. Just like with DDS19, this season is going to be a time for us all to experiment with things. We know you all will find even more things as the season goes on so we encourage you all to share what you find with us so that we can adjust between seasons as needed.
5. There is a new link at the top of the forum called "Player Potential Database" which includes potentials/shooting ratings. Use this to help adjust floor actions/locations. We are going to be flexible with these during this pre-season round 2 and the start of the season but will detail that in each stage.
Again, thank you all for your patience here as we test different ratings/combinations. We are actually really excited about this new engine as it is already proving to be MUCH, MUCH better than DDS19 but is going to take some getting used to.
- Dylan
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Thank you for all of the hard work! Sucks to see my boy Isaiah Cousins get nerfed to death though lol
- bt
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Appreciate all the work done, definitely tough to get it working.
My only real question is why were blocks nerfed in that particular way and not league wide? Bol was what, mid 80's before the boosts so why not remove 10-12% off league wide? If blocks are up then shouldn't it be a league wide adjustment?
I'm querying it because it's so heavily strategy dependent. Bol being in a grind offense lowers them but with his rating in DDS19, I could have had him average 3+ a game easily but now his blocking is nerfed because of this. I assume generic strats were used in testing too.
I completely agree on the nerfing, just not the way it was done I guess.
My only real question is why were blocks nerfed in that particular way and not league wide? Bol was what, mid 80's before the boosts so why not remove 10-12% off league wide? If blocks are up then shouldn't it be a league wide adjustment?
I'm querying it because it's so heavily strategy dependent. Bol being in a grind offense lowers them but with his rating in DDS19, I could have had him average 3+ a game easily but now his blocking is nerfed because of this. I assume generic strats were used in testing too.
I completely agree on the nerfing, just not the way it was done I guess.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Ugh. Great. I'm now paying near-max to a player who has been completely nerfed by the new engine.
- Andrewu91
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Sounds good to me. Thanks
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- emplep7
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
We still wanted blocks to be inline with what we saw in 19 but also have the low/mid tier players have a slightly better chance as stopping easy buckets.bt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:44 am Appreciate all the work done, definitely tough to get it working.
My only real question is why were blocks nerfed in that particular way and not league wide? Bol was what, mid 80's before the boosts so why not remove 10-12% off league wide? If blocks are up then shouldn't it be a league wide adjustment?
I'm querying it because it's so heavily strategy dependent. Bol being in a grind offense lowers them but with his rating in DDS19, I could have had him average 3+ a game easily but now his blocking is nerfed because of this. I assume generic strats were used in testing too.
I completely agree on the nerfing, just not the way it was done I guess.
Bol is still the highest rated blocker in the game (his potential was 81 in 19) and will can still average higher than I’d like block numbers but we couldn’t lower it anymore.
We really just needed to lower the top end of the shot blockers since the separation between them and the others was so great.
- emplep7
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
You can still make Diallo efficient, you just need to adjust his preferences. He was a test case for a few scenarios.
- Dennis
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Urgh, a team build around two shotblockers like Hassan and Tryggvi definitely gets hurt. Feels like moving to the new engine so far was no good decision and maybe a bit rushed. Hopefully the vets don’t lose interest because of those or the diallo case.
Not sure why not globally adjusted. Feels a bit weird as a Player ~60 Blk before adjustment is now very close worth as much as one who had 80 Blk rating before. Imo doesn’t make sense and punishes the teams that focused on having blockers. Adjustments should be fair to all overall. Especially as we jumped from + Blk to - blk I’m not sure I can trust the evaluation of keeping mid/low tier blockers the level they sre.
Before the difference from 60 to 80 was ~ +1.5/2 blocks per game in average. If that’s not the case anymore with the fix it would be really frustrating. I preferred the globally way to fix stuff like myles did last time.
Not sure why not globally adjusted. Feels a bit weird as a Player ~60 Blk before adjustment is now very close worth as much as one who had 80 Blk rating before. Imo doesn’t make sense and punishes the teams that focused on having blockers. Adjustments should be fair to all overall. Especially as we jumped from + Blk to - blk I’m not sure I can trust the evaluation of keeping mid/low tier blockers the level they sre.
Before the difference from 60 to 80 was ~ +1.5/2 blocks per game in average. If that’s not the case anymore with the fix it would be really frustrating. I preferred the globally way to fix stuff like myles did last time.
Last edited by Dennis on Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Very very happy my guys are up for extension next season. Exactly the reason why I didn’t want to spend money or trade much before change.
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- bt
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
We'll just have to adjust but I don't get why low and mid tiers need this boost I guess or why it was adjusted at all or massively from the opposite direction (increased now only elite decreased), especially when strategies play such a big part in it. Have all teams play full court press and should we lower the top thieves also because those strats will blow those numbers out also. Increase the mids so they can stop a drive?emplep7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:43 amWe still wanted blocks to be inline with what we saw in 19 but also have the low/mid tier players have a slightly better chance as stopping easy buckets.
Bol is still the highest rated blocker in the game (his potential was 81 in 19) and will can still average higher than I’d like block numbers but we couldn’t lower it anymore.
We really just needed to lower the top end of the shot blockers since the separation between them and the others was so great.
I guess that's my point. It's a huge nerf (nearly 15% to the elite blockers) and the seperation just isn't there anymore when any stat argument is irrelevant because of strats applied.
But as I said in the other thread, we deal with it, move on and probably forget all about it in a season.
Last edited by bt on Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Silogical
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
I know about the corner cap removal. Will there be any other changes to the caps? This will help us with our pref testing.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Is it because of the offense being so powerful and we need defense to play a role but not have players averaging 5 blocks a game?
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
I don't get it. Based on testing other than preseason? Preseason stats, where blocking was increased, show offense in easy decline compared to DDS19 (Memphis highest at 107.1 per game and highest at 44.8% versus Boston at 113.1 per game and Miami at 49.7%). Not to mention lots of complaints about lowered FG% and ratings but offense is too powerful?
I completely agree blocking needed to be nerfed and if you want a high rating of 70, that's fine but it should have been a league wide adjustment.
I completely agree blocking needed to be nerfed and if you want a high rating of 70, that's fine but it should have been a league wide adjustment.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Firstly thanks to the admins for the hard work. I agree with bt, not sure why the elite shotblockers are being penalized while the average mediocre shotblockers are being rewarded in a sense. I have no issues with the high amount of blocks as is. It just seems that nerfing elite rim protectors is penalizing teams with those type of players due to Ayton or Bol or maybe Fernando who can average 4blks easily which is actually reminiscent of 90s bball where Hakeem Mutombo Robinson Eaton Bol Bradley Mourning etc were putting up blk numbers like our CSL preseason did.bt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:02 pm I don't get it. Based on testing other than preseason? Preseason stats, where blocking was increased, show offense in easy decline compared to DDS19 (Memphis highest at 107.1 per game and highest at 44.8% versus Boston at 113.1 per game and Miami at 49.7%). Not to mention lots of complaints about lowered FG% and ratings but offense is too powerful?
I completely agree blocking needed to be nerfed and if you want a high rating of 70, that's fine but it should have been a league wide adjustment.
Anywho I don't have the game so my voice doesn't mean too much.
Thx for the potential link very helpful, alot of guys I targeted aren't as good as I thought they may be.
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- Dennis
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Fully agree on that.bt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:02 pm I don't get it. Based on testing other than preseason? Preseason stats, where blocking was increased, show offense in easy decline compared to DDS19 (Memphis highest at 107.1 per game and highest at 44.8% versus Boston at 113.1 per game and Miami at 49.7%). Not to mention lots of complaints about lowered FG% and ratings but offense is too powerful?
I completely agree blocking needed to be nerfed and if you want a high rating of 70, that's fine but it should have been a league wide adjustment.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Same thing happened in the last transition when my entire team was defensively nerfed. I had by far the best defensive team in the league completely planned around it and saw it vanish overnight. It happens and just like I did we'll move on. Not to mention we haven't even ran a sim yet to see it.Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:07 am Urgh, a team build around two shotblockers like Hassan and Tryggvi definitely gets hurt. Feels like moving to the new engine so far was no good decision and maybe a bit rushed. Hopefully the vets don’t lose interest because of those or the diallo case.
Not sure why not globally adjusted. Feels a bit weird as a Player ~60 Blk before adjustment is now very close worth as much as one who had 80 Blk rating before. Imo doesn’t make sense and punishes the teams that focused on having blockers. Adjustments should be fair to all overall. Especially as we jumped from + Blk to - blk I’m not sure I can trust the evaluation of keeping mid/low tier blockers the level they sre.
Before the difference from 60 to 80 was ~ +1.5/2 blocks per game in average. If that’s not the case anymore with the fix it would be really frustrating. I preferred the globally way to fix stuff like myles did last time.
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- mgtr81
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Only thing I can say is thanks for all the work, because I know how much work that is.
Just throwing an idea out there ... maybe some kind of "buyout clause" (there may be a better expression, but I can't find it in English) can be implemented at season's end. I mean, every team could be allowed to choose one player to get rid of at season's end if certain criteria is met. For example, if that player's production is way below his usual production in DDS19, if he was signed to a large contract because he was a key piece for his team and after the transition he is barely a quality starter, etc ...
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, if this is implemented, I won't use it for Middleton. As most know I'm trying to move his contract, but if I can't that's on me. I would use it only if one of my core guys was clearly worse after the transition.
Just throwing an idea out there ... maybe some kind of "buyout clause" (there may be a better expression, but I can't find it in English) can be implemented at season's end. I mean, every team could be allowed to choose one player to get rid of at season's end if certain criteria is met. For example, if that player's production is way below his usual production in DDS19, if he was signed to a large contract because he was a key piece for his team and after the transition he is barely a quality starter, etc ...
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, if this is implemented, I won't use it for Middleton. As most know I'm trying to move his contract, but if I can't that's on me. I would use it only if one of my core guys was clearly worse after the transition.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
The nerf back then impacted all teams equally though. Here it doesn’t.drumr wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:01 pmSame thing happened in the last transition when my entire team was defensively nerfed. I had by far the best defensive team in the league completely planned around it and saw it vanish overnight. It happens and just like I did we'll move on. Not to mention we haven't even ran a sim yet to see it.Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:07 am Urgh, a team build around two shotblockers like Hassan and Tryggvi definitely gets hurt. Feels like moving to the new engine so far was no good decision and maybe a bit rushed. Hopefully the vets don’t lose interest because of those or the diallo case.
Not sure why not globally adjusted. Feels a bit weird as a Player ~60 Blk before adjustment is now very close worth as much as one who had 80 Blk rating before. Imo doesn’t make sense and punishes the teams that focused on having blockers. Adjustments should be fair to all overall. Especially as we jumped from + Blk to - blk I’m not sure I can trust the evaluation of keeping mid/low tier blockers the level they sre.
Before the difference from 60 to 80 was ~ +1.5/2 blocks per game in average. If that’s not the case anymore with the fix it would be really frustrating. I preferred the globally way to fix stuff like myles did last time.
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Re: Pre-season/File Planning
Also it will be cool if we can get a range for each letter grades as well, that will be extremely helpful!
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