Why the hell is not every basketball fan standing in line for a CSL GM position???

[Flaming Homer]

To move the topic from the chat into a post, where we can grab the ideas much easier.

One point I always found very frustrating with Discord btw, with the way the content is organized (chat), I had always problems staying up to date. Don't want to waste my time browsing to a chat history if someone maybe posted something I should know. But that's just my opinion.

[KW]

the feedback i've gotten from the people i've tried to get to join (all coming from the football leagues I was in) that either decided not to, or washed out within a season:

1) discord vs forums - every other league I know of utilizes Discord. I think the forums work better for this league given the amount of articles and our long history, and don't have any desire to abandon the forums, but a lot of people like Discord and cutting out some of the clutter.

What I will suggest is that maybe the sections could be simplified and easier to navigate for those who don't know where everything is.

2) The engine, compared to DDS:PF or DDS:CF, is a definite drawback. Really nothing we can do about that atm, I don't think I'd support moving to an entirely new sim engine. But you'll almost definitely find GMs if we're using PB25 or PB26 rather than PB22 which is now 4 years old. I don't think PB22 is particularly problematic, especially not as much as PB19 was but an update may be due.

3) People shitting on every newcomer's trades (or just being generally obnoxious). The worst culprits of this aren't even active right now so I'll leave that one alone, but it's been mentioned more than once that one or two people were ruining the experience.

4) CBA was too complicated. We can blame the NBA for this one, but there are definitely ways the financial structure can be simplified, especially since the DDS financial model doesn't even reflect the NBA's.

5) Some people just didn't want to write articles. no idea how the league wants to handle this one

[KW]

one more- the season being too long. again, kinda the NBA's fault but we can definitely speed through parts of the offseason that we sometimes let drag for a week. like I said in the chat, I think we can definitely have coach hiring and team options running concurrently with the draft and save ourselves an entire week that way. Maybe the middle of the season can move to 3 day sims, while the start and end (more critical times) can be 2 day sims.

I think we can comfortably save 3 weeks to a month without drastically changing anything.

[Marcos_Beck]

Some ideas, many been brought up already

1) 3 day sims
2) Discord based league
3) update engine
4) shorter offseason
5) shorter draft classes and less scouting periods
6) simplify forum
7) new engine from the scratch
8) manual submatrix (less game dependance)
9) remove injuries
10) advertise on RealGM, discord forum, other games forums in Reddit
11) mentors for new GMs
12) more media requirements
13) simplify CBA
14) modernize league finances
15) modernize league ratings

not all are good but just brainstorming it here because we lose track of that chat quickly.

[Silogical]

Discord, less shit talking, and simplifying the CBA are catoring to GMs you dont want. Theyll come in with no dicipline, destroy their team then quit. Which results in others wanting to quit because they make the league a joke.

Articles are a double edged sword. A lot of good GMs just want to GM, but activity on the forums is needed. No easy solution here.

Ideas:

1) shortening the season is a good start.

2) no one gets free 2nd round picks.
Reduce the articles needed to compete all scouting periods.
Earn random 2nd round picks by writing articles.

3) remove useless salary penalties.

[Marcos_Beck]

My opinion

What is good:
1) Making CBA simpler
2) Modernizing financial rules
3) Making forums cleaner and simpler
4) Making offseason shorter (run some stuff at the same time and make FA shorter)
5) Smaller draft class, less scouting periods, less players to write about, less media required (focus on sim threads and space for more quality media)
6) advertisement (we HAVE to invest in that, not money but time, we gotta make a good recruitment pitch)
7) update engine (but not to 25, maybe 26)
8) manual submatrix (less game dependance)

I'm down to either 2 or 3 day sims.

[drumr]

I think this is getting over complicated. I run other leagues. You want to get a flood of new people we either have to hit boards and other leagues consistently to advertise and considering upgrading the version ONLY because that's the entry point for new people. One problem at a time lol

[drumr]

No one has joined and said I quit because of pacing, community, injuries, etc. Its usually just getting people here period from what I've seen.

[Silogical]

No one has joined and said I quit because of pacing, community, injuries, etc. Its usually just getting people here period from what I've seen.

no one ussually says why they quit. I quit because of articles admins somehow got me to change my mind.

but yeah recruitment is 90%

[wms02a]

What are the plus's and minuses of a new engine like 26

[Rizzo]

Hey guys! I touched base with Marcos this morning about this discussion and he reiterated some of my points. While I think Discord is the way to go, I do fully understand Silo's argument that the Discord community very well could lend itself to people coming and going easily.

I do think if there is a media requirement - whatever it may be - the forums are the way to go because it's easiest to keep up with. On Discord, you could setup a channel specifically for article submissions and a separate one for article discussions, but that's not nearly as clean as the forums.

I remember when I first joined the NLL many, many moons ago, the forums were incredibly confusing to me. I remember my first week there thinking to myself "what the F have I gotten myself into?" and not really being able to find what I was looking for. Tightening up the forums would definitely be helpful.

The CBA is made difficult because that's the NBA, but I wonder if there was a way of making a CBA-lite version that gets across the very basics.

A faster moving season would help keep people engaged, especially those that aren't championship contenders, but then it also makes draft class creation that much more difficult. You also have less time to meet media requirements, etc. A faster moving season (more days per sim, for example) is also made difficult with the amount of injuries in this engine and needing to edit the depth chart. I definitely would not remove injuries - this is a sim league, at the end of the day - but it does make for more headaches.

If you want to recruit new GMs, I definitely think being on the newest engine would help. I also think having a system in place for more seamless, manual submissions of DCs for those who don't own the game but want to be a part of the league would help. The idea I pitched to Marcos was having six "trusted users", one for each division. Create a Google Sheets template that resembles exactly what the in-game sub matrix looks like so users without the game or away from the game could submit a screenshot of that to their division's trusted user to have that be manually input for them.

[wms02a]

I think a complex CBA is part of the fun... id love to get closer to the NBA CBA

[Marcos_Beck]

I think a complex CBA is part of the fun... id love to get closer to the NBA CBA

The CBA can be complex and simple at the same time. It's too formal and too much text right now. It can be compressed and updated into a simpler version that contains all the rules in our league and cut the crap that does not interest anyone.

[andrei]

I think a complex CBA is part of the fun... id love to get closer to the NBA CBA

The CBA can be complex and simple at the same time. It's too formal and too much text right now. It can be compressed and updated into a simpler version that contains all the rules in our league and cut the crap that does not interest anyone.

with AI there is no excuse for ''too much text'' - I could create a CBA agent where you ask questions and it will advise on how the rules work. Come to think of it, perhaps AI can help making whatever we do simpler?

[wms02a]

I think a complex CBA is part of the fun... id love to get closer to the NBA CBA

The CBA can be complex and simple at the same time. It's too formal and too much text right now. It can be compressed and updated into a simpler version that contains all the rules in our league and cut the crap that does not interest anyone.

with AI there is no excuse for ''too much text'' - I could create a CBA agent where you ask questions and it will advise on how the rules work. Come to think of it, perhaps AI can help making whatever we do simpler?

Love it! also it could separate our league from others?

[drumr]

LOL, it's not the CBA imo but those are some interesting suggestions. You should see the CBA for the football side in the CSFL. It's probably just as big and complicated, and we have rules around almost as many things with a full league of NFL teams. We haven't gone more than half a season, maybe not even a full one with empty teams, and it's because we have a waiting list of GMs who bought the game and want to participate in multiplayer leagues. There's not a ton of leagues like this so we'd have a good pool of people.

[drumr]

No one has joined and said I quit because of pacing, community, injuries, etc. Its usually just getting people here period from what I've seen.

no one ussually says why they quit. I quit because of articles admins somehow got me to change my mind.

but yeah recruitment is 90%

We usually reach out and ask people, maybe this is another thing we should be doing. I think cleaning up the forums was a great note to. You can make them unique if its easier to find stuff. Some of the leagues I see still on forums are very tightly organized

[KW]

LOL, it's not the CBA. You should see the CBA for the football side in the CSFL. It's probably just as big and complicated, and we have rules around almost as many things with a full league of NFL teams. We haven't gone more than half a season, maybe not even a full one with empty teams, and it's because we have a waiting list of GMs who bought the game and want to participate in multiplayer leagues.

player movement is way easier in football. no real rules aside from stay under $160M, stay under 53 active players. All the cap shenanigans we have to do here to make trades can be a bit of a turn off for some and I get it, even though it's part of the fun for me

[drumr]

That's just trades though I was just saying in volume of rules we're pretty close with everything we had to regulate around contracts and extentions OVR and all that stuff. You can just ctrl-F and find what you want lol. Also why join a GM league i were not gonna simulate the rules GMs have to follow that's part of the fun/challenge right?

[Jestor]

1. Shorten the season. 3 day sims and shorter offseason are both fine imo. We already take weekends off.
2. I’d actually quit the league if we went to Discord. I fucking HATE that platform.
4. Also not interested in no injuries. It’s a sim league.
5. CBA needs some tightening of conflicting things but overall it’s fine imo