CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
- Myles
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CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
I don't think it's any secret that the CSL loves to trade. I mean, almost like a bad addiction. People offering players that they don't even have yet, players getting put on the trade block as soon as they have acquired them, hell, I've even seen GMs talk about trading players in their post accepting their trade for that player. This is a shameless league, and players change addresses around here faster than Luke Ridnour in the summer of 2015. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but there is a lack of loyalty. And while blind loyalty is foolish, the complete absence of it does lead to a lack of history, a lack of culture, a lack of good stories. Every league has a life of its own, and this is the CSL's.
So I decided to take a look around the league, and find out how many players had been on their current team for 5 or more seasons. Why 5? Because that is one more than the length of a rookie scale contract, and it's pretty easy to keep a player when they are only paid peanuts (to be honest though, I'm not sure the numbers would be much more encouraging if I dropped it to four anyway). I went back and looked at the NBA over the past 5 seasons to put our numbers into context as well. The NBA has had 46 players who have played for the same team for the past five seasons. Here they are listed in team alphabetical order.
Dennis Schroeder
Mike Muscala
Cody Zeller
Kemba Walker
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Tristan Thompson
Dirk Nowitzki
Kenneth Faried
Wilson Chandler
Andre Drummond
Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green
Klay Thompson
Stephen Curry
James Harden
DeAndre Jordan
Marc Gasol
Mike Conley
Giannis Antetokounmpo
John Henson
Anthony Davis
Jrue Holiday
Andre Roberson
Nick Collison
Russell Westbrook
Steven Adams
Nikola Vucevic
Alex Len
CJ McCollum
Damian Lillard
Meyers Leonard
Danny Green
Kawhi Leonard
Manu Ginobili
Patty Mills
Tony Parker
DeMar DeRozan
Jonas Valanciunas
Kyle Lowry
Alec Burks
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gobert
Bradley Beal
John Wall
Marcin Gortat
Otto Porter
If you look through that list, it isn't all just stars, like Russell Westbrook, Giannis Antetokounmpo, or Stephen Curry. It's also not just all role players, like Nick Collison, Andre Roberson, or Patty Mills. It's not all old players, like Tony Parker, and it's not all young players, like Otto Porter. These players represent a wide variety of types of players, all of whom are kept by their current team for a number of reasons. So 46 players in the NBA have managed to stay with their current team for the past five seasons. How many have done so in the CSL? Maybe half? Less than that.
15. 15 players have stayed with their own team over the previous five seasons.
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Kyrie Irving
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Kemba Walker
Anthony Davis
Jabari Parker
Adreian Payne
Eric Bledsoe
Isaiah Austin
Otto Porter
Elfrid Payton
Richard Solomon
Jusuf Nurkic
Kawhi Leonard
Nick Johnson
Not only is it just 15 players, but it is also just 8 teams represented here. 20 teams were represented on the NBA list, which means there are more teams in the NBA represented than total players in the CSL on this list.
Anyway, just thought that'd be interesting to see.
So I decided to take a look around the league, and find out how many players had been on their current team for 5 or more seasons. Why 5? Because that is one more than the length of a rookie scale contract, and it's pretty easy to keep a player when they are only paid peanuts (to be honest though, I'm not sure the numbers would be much more encouraging if I dropped it to four anyway). I went back and looked at the NBA over the past 5 seasons to put our numbers into context as well. The NBA has had 46 players who have played for the same team for the past five seasons. Here they are listed in team alphabetical order.
Dennis Schroeder
Mike Muscala
Cody Zeller
Kemba Walker
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Tristan Thompson
Dirk Nowitzki
Kenneth Faried
Wilson Chandler
Andre Drummond
Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green
Klay Thompson
Stephen Curry
James Harden
DeAndre Jordan
Marc Gasol
Mike Conley
Giannis Antetokounmpo
John Henson
Anthony Davis
Jrue Holiday
Andre Roberson
Nick Collison
Russell Westbrook
Steven Adams
Nikola Vucevic
Alex Len
CJ McCollum
Damian Lillard
Meyers Leonard
Danny Green
Kawhi Leonard
Manu Ginobili
Patty Mills
Tony Parker
DeMar DeRozan
Jonas Valanciunas
Kyle Lowry
Alec Burks
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gobert
Bradley Beal
John Wall
Marcin Gortat
Otto Porter
If you look through that list, it isn't all just stars, like Russell Westbrook, Giannis Antetokounmpo, or Stephen Curry. It's also not just all role players, like Nick Collison, Andre Roberson, or Patty Mills. It's not all old players, like Tony Parker, and it's not all young players, like Otto Porter. These players represent a wide variety of types of players, all of whom are kept by their current team for a number of reasons. So 46 players in the NBA have managed to stay with their current team for the past five seasons. How many have done so in the CSL? Maybe half? Less than that.
15. 15 players have stayed with their own team over the previous five seasons.
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Kyrie Irving
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Kemba Walker
Anthony Davis
Jabari Parker
Adreian Payne
Eric Bledsoe
Isaiah Austin
Otto Porter
Elfrid Payton
Richard Solomon
Jusuf Nurkic
Kawhi Leonard
Nick Johnson
Not only is it just 15 players, but it is also just 8 teams represented here. 20 teams were represented on the NBA list, which means there are more teams in the NBA represented than total players in the CSL on this list.
Anyway, just thought that'd be interesting to see.
- Myles
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
When I was brainstorming this piece, a fellow GM mentioned to me: "Here people want to win so bad they don’t care about good stories or history."
I was looking at Elfrid Payton and Richard Solomon specifically when writing this piece because if they were on any other team, they would have been traded 4+ times by now. Payton has shot between 42-44% every season prior to this one and has a 29.6% 3PT for his career. He doesn't get a lot of assists either, and while he's undoubtedly an above-average point guard, he has enough flaws that I could easily see teams getting fed up and trading him. As for Solomon, he's always shot above 50%, but he's never been a great rebounder, his PA/SF is underwhelming for his defensive reputation, and he isn't a very aggressive scorer. He's just kind of solid. Those kinds of guys get traded around on any other team, but Sacramento stayed patient and won their title with these two guys playing a huge role. Just blew my mind at how players get viewed on most teams around the league.
/rant
I was looking at Elfrid Payton and Richard Solomon specifically when writing this piece because if they were on any other team, they would have been traded 4+ times by now. Payton has shot between 42-44% every season prior to this one and has a 29.6% 3PT for his career. He doesn't get a lot of assists either, and while he's undoubtedly an above-average point guard, he has enough flaws that I could easily see teams getting fed up and trading him. As for Solomon, he's always shot above 50%, but he's never been a great rebounder, his PA/SF is underwhelming for his defensive reputation, and he isn't a very aggressive scorer. He's just kind of solid. Those kinds of guys get traded around on any other team, but Sacramento stayed patient and won their title with these two guys playing a huge role. Just blew my mind at how players get viewed on most teams around the league.
/rant
- drumr
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Kinda sad Harkless couldn't make the list now. I'm in the Miles camp of enjoying storylines and keeping teams together. Plus it's easier to have a system and know what to expect when players aren't coming in and out on the regular.
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- OneNole
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Those gms are just scared to trade
FINALLY a logical HC Rule our work is done
- Flaming Homer
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
I'm with Myles too.
But sadly that just mirrors the trend in the NBA, every team just gets rid of their former stars to grab some picks before he declines. Just bad style in my opinion. Best example the trade of Pierce/Garnett. Of course Boston got a great and fast rebuild but c'mon especially the Celtics with so much tradition should be better than that.
Coming back to the CSL, often the trades are motivated like that I guess. And it is just easier to get rid of a player here, no personality involved.
Lets see if KAT can end his career in Atlanta
But sadly that just mirrors the trend in the NBA, every team just gets rid of their former stars to grab some picks before he declines. Just bad style in my opinion. Best example the trade of Pierce/Garnett. Of course Boston got a great and fast rebuild but c'mon especially the Celtics with so much tradition should be better than that.
Coming back to the CSL, often the trades are motivated like that I guess. And it is just easier to get rid of a player here, no personality involved.
Lets see if KAT can end his career in Atlanta
- Ocons
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
OneNole wrote:Those gms are just scared to trade
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- Ocons
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Seriously though, what does loyalty get you in a computer game? These guys being on their teams is less about loyalty and more about those GM's being enamored by those players and not sure they can get the value they perceive them to have or how they can manage the team without them. There's also been quite a few trades over the past season and a half that moved a ton of pieces who had been on their respective team for awhile - Horford, Rose, Exum, Harden, George etc. The list gets a little bigger. It was a good time to post the article.
Nice research.
Nice research.
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- Myles
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
The thing that inspired this article for me wasn’t strictly about loyalty, but more so identity I suppose. I was talking with someone about the NLL and when a player’s name or a GM’s name came up, more often than not there was a distinct image or storyline. Willie Warren was the Suns, the Bulls were led by Conley and Koufos, the Raptors had a great trio of Xavier Henry, Perry Jones, and Jarvis Varnado. The Mavs lived and died by John Wall. All this is off the top of my head and the NLL has been gone for two years now.
It’s not so much the loyalty by itself, but the lack of history and great stories that come about due to that lack of loyalty.
It’s not so much the loyalty by itself, but the lack of history and great stories that come about due to that lack of loyalty.
- Ocons
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Yup, good point. This league still has its share but it's not as memorable yet I suppose.
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- orangeparka
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Wow, TBH that’s a lot more than I would’ve expected
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- blackice
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
I thought Emmanuel Mudiay was the franchise saviour, the one guy I wouldn't move under any circumstance. Good times.
Anyway great article, it's probably not a surprise that the teams at the top like PHX/SAC/DET are some of the least active on the trade market and are the most loyal GM's we have. Of course it's not a prerequisite for team success as DAL is showing us. Different styles and whatnot.
Anyway great article, it's probably not a surprise that the teams at the top like PHX/SAC/DET are some of the least active on the trade market and are the most loyal GM's we have. Of course it's not a prerequisite for team success as DAL is showing us. Different styles and whatnot.
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
I've targeted nearly every player on that list. Teams are smart for keeping their good players long term, obviously. Also a lot of people enjoy keeping things fresh and new challenges, so they dont keep guys for very long.
In need of a home
- hardenwithnod
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
That's some good research man, and no doubt this is a very trade active league. But as others have mentioned before, there's literally no incentives to stay loyal unless you've built a team that's capable of being a dynasty with internal growth.
Big changes are coming in D.C.
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Don't know about other leagues but CSL is very trade heavy the way I see it. So unless you have AD type of talent it really makes little sense to hold on to players due to league improving all the time - you have to improve with it.
Someone said that the champions from long time ago like Indiana and Denver would not be winning the title today and this may very well be the case. I see GMs have evolved dramatically with most have a good understanding of value and ratings and advanced stats. The league is tough man
Someone said that the champions from long time ago like Indiana and Denver would not be winning the title today and this may very well be the case. I see GMs have evolved dramatically with most have a good understanding of value and ratings and advanced stats. The league is tough man
Congrats to season 16 ASL champion SoulKey. For the Swarm!
- hardenwithnod
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Yeah, you pretty much have to make deals to survive with the other teams that are making moves.
Big changes are coming in D.C.
- bt
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
I find some GM's have no idea what they actually want to do (or no idea in general) which leads to increased turnover and trading.
I agree with you Myles though, it hurts the story lines and engagement of the league.
I agree with you Myles though, it hurts the story lines and engagement of the league.
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- Ocons
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Nailed it.bt wrote:I find some GM's have no idea what they actually want to do (or no idea in general) which leads to increased turnover and trading.
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- Myles
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
I suppose I came about this wrong. It's not about loyalty for me, that was just the easiest way to put this topic. Loyalty for loyalty's sake is stupid, I agree with you all, especially when there's no incentive for loyalty.
But when it comes to the history, the storylines, the engagement, the constant moving of players actively hurts the CSL in that aspect.
But when it comes to the history, the storylines, the engagement, the constant moving of players actively hurts the CSL in that aspect.
- orangeparka
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Agree for sure. For me personally, once I get that star that I really love, as well as a couple of players core to my philosophy, I don't ever entertain moving them. For example when I had Lillard before (he was a GOD in old-CSL), or KD as MIA, Blake in DEN, etc.Myles wrote:I suppose I came about this wrong. It's not about loyalty for me, that was just the easiest way to put this topic. Loyalty for loyalty's sake is stupid, I agree with you all, especially when there's no incentive for loyalty.
But when it comes to the history, the storylines, the engagement, the constant moving of players actively hurts the CSL in that aspect.
You wanna continue building and retooling around them.
CHARLOTTE HORNETS
Kris Dunn / Jordan Farmar / Jahii Carson
Bradley Beal / Michael Carter-Williams
Furkan Korkmaz / Rodney Hood / Danny Green
Clint Capela / Noah Vonleh / Brandan Wright / Taj Gibson
Jonas Valanciunas / Jordan Mickey / Robert Upshaw
Legacy (DENVER NUGGETS)
2013/2014: 55-27 (Lost in 2nd Round)
2014/2015: 52-30 (CSL Championship)
Kris Dunn / Jordan Farmar / Jahii Carson
Bradley Beal / Michael Carter-Williams
Furkan Korkmaz / Rodney Hood / Danny Green
Clint Capela / Noah Vonleh / Brandan Wright / Taj Gibson
Jonas Valanciunas / Jordan Mickey / Robert Upshaw
Legacy (DENVER NUGGETS)
2013/2014: 55-27 (Lost in 2nd Round)
2014/2015: 52-30 (CSL Championship)
- Dennis
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Re: CSL: L Does Not Stand for Loyalty
Skal will be a lifetime Celtic. No worries.
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