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Playing Players Out of Position

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emplep7
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Playing Players Out of Position

Post by emplep7 »

PLEASE READ...

So, this has been an issue for a while now, but after witnessing the number of times this happened the past season, we have decided that its time to put some basic ground rules out there to "try" and make this game a little more aligned to real life.

We have seen now that playing a guard at PF or C is an unrealistic advantage for that guard even though in real life that guard would have no chance at either position.

What we want: Play players where they are fit to play. A 6 foot guard CANNOT play PF or C (or even SF at that point). We really want this to be RATINGS based and not position based as a lot of SFs don't have the ratings to play even "small-ball" PF, but we also want to maintain the flexibility of players like Ben Simmons who have the ratings to play the 1-5 to still be able to play any position, but we don't want a player with rebounding ratings in the 40s and 50s playing PF/C because we know its not realistic and is a way to cheat the system if they have certain other ratings.

The Penalty System will be as follows:
1st Offense - Player is suspended until Sub-Matrix/DC is updated to remove them from the incorrect position.
2nd Offense - Player is suspended for one month.
3rd Offense - Please don't make us have to think of a 3rd offense.

Note: If the penalty occurs during a playoff series, the player will be treated the same as above. However, if the penalty occurs in a series clinching game, the player will be suspended and that game result will be re-simmed with that player OUT.

We don't want to put in hard restrictions (i.e. to play PF you must be at least 6'5 and weight 215 lbs, etc) but will move to that if it becomes too ambiguous and GMs are still trying to skirt the rules. And if you feel your player is actually suited to play those positions, send a message to the Admin team prior to placing them in the sub-matrix so that you don't incur the penalty and can explain why you feel one way or another.

Again, we want to keep the leniency of certain players who have that flexibility to play multiple positions, but as we find additional bugs around the games logic around this we will impose immediate IN-SEASON changes to this rule.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Marcos_Beck »

Thank god.

I like that this is more subjective than any kind of imposing rule, and I think everyone will have a pretty good judgement, and a good use of common sense.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Stockton12 »

Good idea I support this

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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by hardenwithnod »

Seems good on paper, and I think as long as everyone uses common sense, then that shouldn’t be a problem.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by KW »

This is going to spark a lot of debate about who does and doesn't have the ratings of a PF, because I know many of us have different opinions on this. It's no secret that I'm all for pushing the boundaries on this kind of thing, but understanding the limitations of the engine, I can understand wanting to put some loose restrictions on positions.

Full disclosure, I have zero intention of playing small ball this season, look at my roster. I have no guards or wings like Harden or Exum who have the interior scoring ability of a frontcourt player, which is took advantage of to keep them closer to the basket. But that is the past, I have no horse in this race currently, and don't plan to go back to that.

But from past experience, and looking at the way the NBA is trending, I can see this sparking a big time debate on the "definition" of a frontcourt position.

In general, I view the 2-4 positions as kind of wild cards between your big man and your ball handler, fairly interchangeable. But PF may have the most diversity, where you can watch a team plug in an interior guy to beef up the inside or a much smaller perimeter guy to add another ball handler or spacing.

If you want to penalize someone for running a 6'1 guy at center in an important game due to limitations in the engine, I get it ... But keep it reasonable. I definitely think 3-guard sets are within reason and should be fair game, and that most "normal" wings can slide over to PF for a short time.

That's my 2 cents on the subject.

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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Marcos_Beck »

3-guard lineups are being run at the NBA, indeed. But often you see a SG at SF, not a PG.
As for SFs, you're not going to run 30 ORB, 40 DRB, 30 BLK Middleton at PF. But you'll run Otto Porter or Okaro White at PF without major problems.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Ocons »

Sorry, I'm confused on what the actual rule is? I get the intention and, to an extent, I agree. Just want to make sure I'm clear on the rules though.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by andrei »

man, just when I was about to start Bogdan at C.... :)

For disclosure though, I'm planning to try DGreen at PG due to high passing rating and decent handles but let me know if there are challenges with this.

I think the idea here is: a player designed to play Big should play Big. A player designed to play Wing should play Wing.

Complications arise with players like Simmons (Green?) that look like a certain type of a player i.e. Big, but have ratings that allow to play all over the court.

Also, H. Barnes who you could argue is a wing even though I changed him to PF last year (although his rebounding ratings are decent and I bumped up his weight a bit)
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by emplep7 »

Playing a big man at PG in this engine has not shown the type of impact that a guard does at big man so there is no worry about the other way but for realism I’m not going to have Julius Randle at PG. Draymond and Ben are unique where they have the ratings to play at PG, which isn’t what we are fighting here.

We want to keep flexibility for the players that have the ratings to be flexible, while avoiding Exum, Hezonja, Kemba, Rozier Etc from dropping 50, 10, 5 blks from PF because the game algorithm is not setup for that.

We realize there is a gray area here, but if we put in hard restrictions a player like Simmons can only play 1-2 positions which we don’t want.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Dennis »

What about guys like Barnes at PF or Bender at C? Those are their natural positions yet their rebounding is their clear weakness.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Rizzo »

I don't have much input on what the restrictions should be but I am fully in on the "Make CSL Realistic Again" movement. It's got to be realistic to make specific moves. No need for team to benefit due to the limitations of the engine.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Ocons »

Teams have won championships on the limitations of the engine, lol.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Marcos_Beck »

Ocons wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:59 pm Teams have won championships on the limitations of the engine, lol.
Oh cmon. During my run the only thing that happened was MKG at C (which is perfectly doable IMO) and Butler at PF. Okaro at SG.. That's all I believe. and all of them are really doable.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by wms02a »

So what about Kyle Anderson? He is 6'9 and cant rebound worth a lick... listed a PF??
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emplep7
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by emplep7 »

Kyle Anderson plays PF in real life. Same thing with Bender.

I realize the questions that will come up. The point is if I play Terry Rozier or Jamal Murray at PF, they will dominate other PFs due to the formula the game uses. This wasn’t truly tested until recently where it is now definitively a bug like the all 10s bug.

We want this to be ratings based, but a part of it needs to be common sense. There are plenty of scrubs or average players who don’t have great rebounding ratings, but are big men or can’t pass or handle great, but are best suited as a guard.

Just use your judgement and if you have questions, as always contact the admin team.
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by wms02a »

Any issue w Anderson at center?
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by hardenwithnod »

Barnes at PF should be fine, no?
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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Jestor »

Good deal to see this

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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Andrewu91 »

It's plain and simple to me. Don't play guards at center or power forward. Don't exploit the dds engine.

It's always been talked about, but now set in stone haha

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Re: Playing Players Out of Position

Post by Raidercj »

AD at the 1?
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