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New Free Agent System

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Myles
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Myles » Tue May 14, 2019 4:41 pm

1. Discussing 100% formula-driven is a moot point, because unless we have some math and programming geniuses in here, we aren't going to be able to develop that kind of an AI in a short amount of time. It took me a long time to be able to get the spreadsheet that I did, and that doesn't include the following things (which would need to be included if we were to go 100% formula-driven): player valuation, available cap space, how time and current pending offers affect player valuation, current overall talent level of a roster and how that affects their ability to be a winning team, and how to weight things like total money vs. AAV (is it better to have a 2 year, 20M deal, or a 3 year, 24M deal?) or things like player options vs. team options vs. no options. There's so much more that would need to be added to get to 100% formula-driven that I don't feel confident we can get right in a reasonable amount of time, and this is the kind of stuff that I feel comfortable trusting with reliable people. If we don't trust each other to do the right thing when called upon, then we don't have much of a league.

2. Communication being done on the forum vs. PMs is a small talking point considering the system as a whole. I don't know where I stand on this because I haven't really thought hard about it. We've always done private communication, but there's certainly merit to doing public communication. Perhaps creating a thread for each player in the off-season free agent section of the forum, and that thread will be where agents will be required to post updates for their player. It would be 1-way communication, as I wouldn't want negotiating to take place there, and the updates would be scripted as I don't want to compromise the identity of our player agents, but it would make things more transparent for sure.

3. Jon and I are discussing exactly how to make bids transparent. There will be some form of public spreadsheet that all GMs can look at, not sure exactly what it will entail but we will have as much transparency as we can without compromising the free agent process. One of the concerns I have with fully transparent bids is that it does make free agency like an auction, as I've seen public free agent systems in the past literally devolve to:

Denver offers 2 years, 15M
Miami offers 2 years, 16M
Denver offers 2 years, 17M
Miami offers 3 years, 26M
Denver offers 3 years, 27M

And so on and so on. It's just not fun and it's not realistic. We want to have a system that mimics real life so that people truly feel like GMs. That's the mission of this league, for our members to feel like they are the GM of a basketball organization. So while I do want people to have the transparency so they can see what's going on, I don't want it to become an auction.

4. (Addressing Willy's question about player demands): No, we won't be using DDS to get their original demands. Player valuations are largely market-driven, and we will give the market time to suss out what a player's value is. That's where the Agent updates will come in though, those public updates that let people know where each player stands, and allows teams to get offers in for those players.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Tue May 14, 2019 6:24 pm

Myles wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:41 pm
4. (Addressing Willy's question about player demands): No, we won't be using DDS to get their original demands. Player valuations are largely market-driven, and we will give the market time to suss out what a player's value is. That's where the Agent updates will come in though, those public updates that let people know where each player stands, and allows teams to get offers in for those players.
I like that. Having some kind of moratory can only help as it will give time to GMs and the market to adjust to initial "offers" (or lets call it demands, as the offers will basically create how much a player demands).
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Flaming Homer » Tue May 14, 2019 7:22 pm

For me the only reason for switching to a new FA system is getting closer to a realistic feeling. I'm not a fan of open auction or something with a strict math formula. Doesn't feel realistic. The "human aspect" gives such a system the most authentic vibe.
I think the admins did a lot of work in designing a system with the potential to offer that. I'm all for it to test it out.

It will be hard to impossible to have a system in place where everyone is totally happy, but this is free agency. There will be decisions some like and some not in every system.

If we find out the agent system is to much work, too much stress, pisses people off ... then rather go back to DDS and blame the AI. The biggest concern for me with DDS so far is, that everyone with game access can log in and see the offers. With DDS 19 that should be history(?).

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Myles
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Myles » Tue May 14, 2019 7:42 pm

With DDS19 that will be history.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Wed May 15, 2019 2:06 am

Myles wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:42 pm
With DDS19 that will be history.
This is pretty dope
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Silogical » Wed May 15, 2019 2:58 am

Flaming Homer wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:22 pm
For me the only reason for switching to a new FA system is getting closer to a realistic feeling. I'm not a fan of open auction or something with a strict math formula. Doesn't feel realistic. The "human aspect" gives such a system the most authentic vibe.
math formula is more realistic. We dont have players personal preference so we can ignore that. After players personal preference Agents use spreadsheets to determine what they want. Do they want a team option but sacrifice some salary to get it? do they want 2 3 4 years? calculating which teams are better? Its all done in a spreadsheet. They dont just eyeball this stuff and make a decision.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Myles » Wed May 15, 2019 6:47 pm

In regards to some of the suggestions we've received:

1. We will have a public spreadsheet with all the current offers available for everyone to view. It will be on Google Sheets so it will be easily accessible, and regularly updated. It will include what teams are offering for what players, but it will not include the interest level of each player for each team.

2. The forum will have a section dedicated to the off-season free agency and every player that receives an offer will get his own thread. This thread will be updated by the agents regularly to inform everyone what is happening with that player's offers.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Silogical » Wed May 15, 2019 8:42 pm

Myles wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:47 pm
In regards to some of the suggestions we've received:

1. We will have a public spreadsheet with all the current offers available for everyone to view. It will be on Google Sheets so it will be easily accessible, and regularly updated. It will include what teams are offering for what players, but it will not include the interest level of each player for each team.

2. The forum will have a section dedicated to the off-season free agency and every player that receives an offer will get his own thread. This thread will be updated by the agents regularly to inform everyone what is happening with that player's offers.
Great moves. these two small additions will make FA 10x better.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Marcos_Beck » Thu May 16, 2019 2:19 am

Myles wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:47 pm
1. We will have a public spreadsheet with all the current offers available for everyone to view. It will be on Google Sheets so it will be easily accessible, and regularly updated. It will include what teams are offering for what players, but it will not include the interest level of each player for each team.
Why that?
If there's a thread for for every player, why also making offers public? Agencies can just say "player A has an 8 figure starting offer to commit long term but he's looking for more" or "player B has received several offers close to max range and is strongly considering signing with two contenders from last season". Much better than letting people know each other's offers. I've been a real life player agent before and it doesn't happen like that, many teams avoid auctions and prefer to remain silent while negotiating and they "ask" player and agents to keep their lips sealed as well. I've seen some transferences go down in my 3-year career next to my father because it turned into an auction, team A who initially showed interest backed down and team B who tried to cover the offer gave up as they understood they were offering too much just to pry away a player from a rival which wasn't worth it.

I'd much much rather have agencies write down interesting stuff without revealing real numbers than we go to this DDS stuff of everyone knowing each other's offers all over again. This doesn't seem real for me, honestly.
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Andrewu91 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Marcos_Beck wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:19 am
Myles wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:47 pm
1. We will have a public spreadsheet with all the current offers available for everyone to view. It will be on Google Sheets so it will be easily accessible, and regularly updated. It will include what teams are offering for what players, but it will not include the interest level of each player for each team.
Why that?
If there's a thread for for every player, why also making offers public? Agencies can just say "player A has an 8 figure starting offer to commit long term but he's looking for more" or "player B has received several offers close to max range and is strongly considering signing with two contenders from last season". Much better than letting people know each other's offers. I've been a real life player agent before and it doesn't happen like that, many teams avoid auctions and prefer to remain silent while negotiating and they "ask" player and agents to keep their lips sealed as well. I've seen some transferences go down in my 3-year career next to my father because it turned into an auction, team A who initially showed interest backed down and team B who tried to cover the offer gave up as they understood they were offering too much just to pry away a player from a rival which wasn't worth it.

I'd much much rather have agencies write down interesting stuff without revealing real numbers than we go to this DDS stuff of everyone knowing each other's offers all over again. This doesn't seem real for me, honestly.
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Myles » Thu May 16, 2019 3:14 pm

We are going to ease our way into this player agent system, and part of that is being transparent first. The threads won't be updated as regularly as the sheets, and we don't want people being in the dark for too long about their offers.

One key thing that I think got overlooked in the spreadsheet is that it won't include the player's interest level in the team that's offering the deal. So while yes, you can see that one team offered a 2 year, 20M deal to a player and another team offered a 2 year, 22M deal, you won't know which team he prefers. So it won't be as straightforward as it sounds.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:22 pm

I didn't have the time to read all the opinions here until now that I'm preparing for Free Agency.

Thinking as a CSL member ... in my opinion it all comes down to trust: if the PA's selected by the Commissioners can be trusted, which I think it will be the case, then there is no need to post bids publicly. If not, then everything should be public, but then we have a problem as a league, and a big one: lack of trust.

Thinking as the Bucks GM ... the only chance I have to sign a decent point guard after winning 66 games combined in the last four seasons is to make an offer to someone who has not been targeted during early FA by the better teams and accepts my offer. I'm afraid public bids (spreadsheet or not) would ruin any potential quality signing for us. Unless we are actually (sorry to bold this, but it is the key here) making player attributes matter. I mean, a PG who has high PT demands and is his main attribute should know that we are the best team for him. It should not matter then others offering more money, better chance to win, etc ...

Now, after my opinions, a question: will there be a chance for signings to be agreed but delayed? For example, Thon Maker agrees to a new deal with us but let us delay his signing until we use our $10M in cap space.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Rizzo » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:13 pm

I’m not a part of this system but I can’t imagine delayed signings being allowed. I know what you mean as you want your RFAs to sign last because you can use cap elsewhere first - like I would love to do with D’Angelo Russell - but that’s a lot to keep up with.
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Silogical » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:19 pm

Rizzo wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:13 pm
I’m not a part of this system but I can’t imagine delayed signings being allowed. I know what you mean as you want your RFAs to sign last because you can use cap elsewhere first - like I would love to do with D’Angelo Russell - but that’s a lot to keep up with.
The agents job is to get their clients as much money possible in the best situation. Working with teams cap situations is a way to get their clients as much money possible and help their teams improve so their clients can win. it's realistic, maybe itll be tough to keep up with but i dont see why it would be.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: mgtr81 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:47 am

What would happen in the following case?

I have about $10M in cap space when FA starts. I submit an offer to one player for all I can spend (starting salary $10M). Right after that I start negotiating a new contract with Maker. What happens if Maker signs while the other player is still considering the offer?
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Myles » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:31 pm

If he signs, then the other offer becomes invalid as you no longer have that cap space. However, there will be some leeway with players with bird rights agreeing to an offer but delaying the official signing. This won’t happen often, it won’t be for very long, and it does leave open the possibility that if another team blows the agreed to offer out of the water, the player may change his mind. Also, you’ll need to notify the PA ahead of time that you would like the player to agree to delay the signing by a day or so.

Our PAs will take these types of situations into account, and you’ll never see a team get strung along or screwed over like happens sometimes in real life.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Andrewu91 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:06 pm

I miss the dds system already lol. I can already tell, a lot of butt hurting will happen this off season.
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: emplep7 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:10 pm

I think the important thing to note is that signings won't be dragged on like they are in DDS. Getting offers in early will be key (just like DDS and in real life).
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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Silogical » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:49 pm

emplep7 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:10 pm
I think the important thing to note is that signings won't be dragged on like they are in DDS. Getting offers in early will be key (just like DDS and in real life).
This is a very important point. Players need to reward teams that come with a strong offer right out of the gate. I would put a formula behind it for transparency but id put a formula behind everything.

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Re: New Free Agent System

Post Author: Ocons » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:15 am

Will Day 1 basically be an exchange of player demands? If we aren't basing things off of DDS, we'll need to have a good understanding of that to get offer in quickly for consideration.
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